Ryan Millsap, Chairman & CEO of Atlanta-based Blackhall Studios, is one of today’s top entertainment executives! With a vision for Blackhall that’s ambitious, energizing and boundless, Millsap is blazing a trail through the heart of the South – and setting his sights on the future of entertainment. Listen and learn as Ryan Millsap journeys through the myriad industries, people and landscapes that traverse the complex and dynamic world of film production.
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Donna: I'm Donna Lowry, here with the first Blackhall podcast, and with me is the CEO of Blackhall Studios, Ryan Millsap. Welcome.
Ryan: Thank you, Donna.
Donna: We're excited about this -- to learn more about you on this particular podcast and find out what you're doing in Atlanta in particular. A lot of exciting things.
Ryan: There are a lot of exciting things going on.
Donna: Let's talk about your background a little bit, because I think it's fascinating.
Ryan: Really?
Donna: The fact that you went to Biola University to begin with.
Ryan: It’s a small liberal arts school that has a history in Protestant Christianity, similar to Wheaton College in Chicago. They have a really tight relationship with USC. There's a joint degree at USC, I know, in engineering, and I believe there's some that that carry over like that in the STEM areas as well.
Donna: And then you went on to get your master’s in real estate development at USC.
Ryan: At USC -- I did, yeah.
Donna: And now you're a professor there, right? A little bit?
Ryan: Well, I had to retire from actually teaching courses in 2015 because it was just too difficult. I moved to Georgia in 2014, and I actually taught at USC, commuting back to LA. And then I just said, “I have to give this up.”
Donna: And during your time that you were an undergrad at Biola, you were able to go over to Oxford College in England -- the famed Oxford College -- and do some things in philosophy.
Ryan: Well, you know, I studied philosophy as an undergraduate and, in the world of philosophy, Oxford is really the center. And so, to get to go and spend a year there studying philosophy was amazing. I really believe I learned more in one year at Oxford than I learned in all the rest of my education combined.
Donna: So when you left that part -- you know, real estate, philosophy -- did you see yourself getting into the film industry at some point?
Ryan: No, I had no idea what my career was going to be.
Donna: So where did all of this come from?
Ryan: I mean, it's a long real estate journey. I mean, all this is just real estate. So, you know, it's interesting. One thing that you made me think of when we were talking about Atlanta and Biola and USC is that I'm actually reconnecting with Raphael Bostic coming up here in the next couple of weeks. I haven' t seen him in years. Raphael is the president of the Atlanta Federal Reserve. But years ago, he used to be the head of the real estate program at USC.
Donna: I did not know that.
Ryan: Raphael is actually who hired me to be a professor at USC.
Donna: Your life always goes full circle. I've found that a lot.
Ryan: It's amazing when people come into your life, go away, come back -- and come back in different forms. And so, it's really fun to see all the things Raphael is doing. I can't wait to catch up with him.
Donna: So, you started with real estate in Atlanta. Talk about where you started buying property.
Ryan: Well, I started doing real estate deals in Atlanta in the early 2000’s. We were buying apartment deals, and we were buying apartments all across the country. And then, in 2006, 2007, there wasn't a lot to buy, right? The world was...
Donna: It was a downturn. Things were bad.
Ryan: Well, it was hot, actually, ‘06 and ‘07. Everything was really hot.
Donna: That's true.
Ryan: And then it was ‘08. Everything fell apart in 2008. So, 2008 -- I think it was October when Lehman Brothers failed -- after Lehman Brothers failed, I formed another company called Orinda with two wealthy families in Beverly Hills. And we went out, and we bought 8000 apartments.
Donna: In the Atlanta area?
Ryan: 4000 in Atlanta and 4000 in the surrounding cities. Nashville, Raleigh, Chattanooga, Savannah. We actually even bought something in Tuscaloosa. You know, 8000 apartments is about 30 apartment complexes, right? So that’s about 30 deals. That feels more manageable, right?
Donna: That seems huge to me, but okay.
Ryan: Well, it was a really interesting time in commercial real estate -- and residential real estate in particular -- because the markets had become very illiquid. And with illiquidity comes pricing pressure, and pricing pressure just opened up a lot of opportunity for us. All the things that I've ever done in real estate are either focused on one of two things: they're new and innovative, or they’re wide margin of safety, distressed. So, we not only did all the apartments, but then we also did a lot of real estate in Los Angeles, where we took warehouses and converted them to retail, or we took warehouses and converted them to creative offices, or we took an old retail center that was in a really good location in Pasadena, re-tenanted it, and then sold it off to a big institution. Along the way, interestingly -- I think it was 2012 -- we bought a warehouse in Hollywood, and Live Nation, the entertainment company, came to us and said, “If you take this warehouse and turn it into a soundstage, we'll lease it from you for ten years.”
Donna: So that was the first time anyone had mentioned anything dealing with soundstages?
Ryan: Correct.
Donna: You were dealing with residential real estate up until that point. In many cases, I mean.
Ryan: Well, apartments, and then other commercial real estate that was unique, right? I call that unique commercial real estate stuff a ‘sniper shot.’ It's like a one-time deal. It's not a business plan. You can't replicate it. There's just a big opportunity on a particular piece of land.
Donna: Love that.
Ryan: Right. Buying all the apartments. That's a company, right? You can buy apartment deal after apartment deal and really pipeline it. And, you know, one apartment deal in the suburbs is not totally dissimilar from another apartment deal in the suburbs. And so, it's a commodity, right? So you're buying in bulk.
Donna: I love that. So you're buying in bulk. And there was the downturn in the economy all over the nation. Here in Atlanta, we saw some problems. And then it just happened to be an opportunity for you. Tell us how you ended up switching from just the residential to that.
Ryan: Well, again, it's not just residential real estate. It's really commercial in general. Remember that real estate -- when it comes to business -- all it is is providing space for someone to execute a trade. Whether it's owning an office building, and I then provide a space for a lawyer to execute his trade. Or I own a hospital, and I provide a space for a doctor to execute his trade. Or I own a movie studio, and I provide a space for a producer and a director and an actor to execute his trade. It's still just space. So, the kind of space, the shape of the space, the, the use of the space is really what defines real estate. And in this instance, all I'm doing is taking transferable real estate skills and applying them to the entertainment industry.
Donna: So, I'm trying to get to the point. Do you think to yourself, “Well, this is a hot place to start opening movie studios to use that commercial space?”
Ryan: Well, I moved to Atlanta in 2014, and we had a lot of apartments. And on top of it, then, I had a wonderful new girlfriend, the love of my life, who I just wanted to chase to Atlanta, too.
Donna: I love when those are included in interviews -- when you talk about the people you care about, because they do make a difference in what you do with your life.
Ryan: It makes a huge difference. She made a huge difference in so many ways. But 2014 was the same year that Pinewood opened.
Donna: That's right.
Ryan: Right. And so, from a real estate standpoint, the first question I started to think about when I heard about Pinewood was, “why did they build it in Fayetteville?”
Donna: Interesting.
Ryan: Right? Because, from a pure real estate standpoint, the first place you would think about building a movie studio wouldn't be Fayetteville.
Donna: Right.
Ryan: And I knew that it would be very difficult for me to capitalize a movie studio development in Fayetteville. So I thought, “Who built that? Why did they build it there? What was the strategy?” I was wondering: did they build it in Fayetteville because they wanted to be out in the middle of nowhere, for silence? Or did they want to be out there for security?
Donna: Close to the airport?
Ryan: How close to the airport? Was there other land that was closer to the airport? What’s the strategy? And I, coming from LA, I knew that all the studios were in the middle of town. Now, when they were built 100 years ago, they were out on the outside of town. They were in places where you could buy land cheap. So I thought, “Okay, maybe it's like that. Maybe they just were looking for land cheap.” But then, without too much time passing, I found out that Dan Cathy had put up all the money and he had built Pinewood. And that Dan was from Fayetteville.
Donna: Yes, that's exactly it.
Ryan: So then, the strategy was love, right? It was Dan loving his hometown, wanting to give back to his hometown, wanting to build something beautiful, and have it near where he lived. And that's a wonderful, amazing strategy -- if you are as successful and wealthy as Dan. Because he's a one-check writer and he does what he wants.
Donna: That's right.
Ryan: But for a real estate guy that's dependent on attracting capital that's not just their own, then that strategy wouldn't work. But what that did open up was that Dan and Frank -- Frank Patterson is the president of Pinewood -- are wonderful to me. And we have really good business relationships. I love those guys. They're fantastic. And I tell them all the time: “If it wasn't for what you've done, we would not have achieved nearly the scale or the prestige or the success that we've seen in Georgia to this point.”
Donna: They're giants in the metro Atlanta area. And Truett Cathy, Dan's father, was an amazing man, who I had the fortune of getting to know. I interviewed him, too, in the past.
Ryan: I didn't have that fortune, but I've heard incredible things about him.
Donna: He’s amazing. He raised a good son, too. And now you're learning from him.
Ryan: Yes, he did. Right. And so, building Pinewood in that location, he opened up the opportunity for a real estate guy to see that, if it works in Fayetteville and if it works for the biggest, most important scaling studio in the world, Marvel -- well, what if we built Pinewood in the city? And so I just started to talk to people. All kinds of people. People in LA, people in Atlanta. And the question is, “What if we built Pinewood in the city?” And over and over, we hear the same thing: “If you build Pinewood in the city, you're going to kill it. Because the only thing we don't like about Pinewood is driving there.”
Donna: I see.
Ryan: So then it just became a simple thesis. It's already been proven. It's been proven in a location that’s outside of town. So now, what if we took that same thing and put it in town? That's what we did. And we really have just gotten shot out of a cannon. We've been open almost three years. And in that time, we've done multiple deals with Disney, multiple with Sony, multiple with Warner Brothers. Multiple with Lionsgate, HBO, Universal, Legendary, Skydance and Fox.
Donna: I love it. Talk about some of the shows that we’d know -- some of the movies and shows that we’d know.
Ryan: The ones that have come out that you would know would be ‘Venom’ with Tom Hardy.
Donna: Yes.
Ryan: And most recently, the latest Jumanji. ‘Jumanji: The Next Level.’
Donna: Which have actually watched twice now. I took some kids, and then I went on my own. So I’ve seen it twice.
Ryan: They've really got a fantastic concept in the whole Jumanji series of movies.
Donna: I can see it going on and on and on.
Ryan: I don't know why it wouldn't. You know, what's interesting about this, too, to me, is the blend that you see in a lot of places happening between esports and gaming and entertainment. I came home one day over Christmas, and my kids were home watching TV, and I walked in and I said, “What are you guys watching?” And they said, “Oh, we're watching so-and-so play Minecraft.”
Donna: Wow.
Ryan: Right. Because now, kids watching other kids play video games -- or kids watching professionals play video games -- is as much entertainment as adults watching other guys play football.
Donna: Isn't that something?
Ryan: Right? And for them, it's the equivalent.
Donna: It's a whole world that I didn't even know about until recently.
Ryan: Right. What's going on is that esports has this crossover, and you see it in movies like Jumanji that are all based on the notion that they get sucked into a video game. Or the movie Ready Player One -- all based on an alternate reality. That is, the entire plot centers around this alternate reality inside of a game. So I think we're going to see more and more of this theme. It's going to be a jumping-off point for all sorts of other stories to be told. And I think you'll see things going the other way where movies get made into games, right?
Donna: That's fascinating.
Ryan: And it's not just games getting incorporated into the movies and used as a plot line to allow for all sorts of imaginative fantasy.
Donna: Oh, I love that. I'm into it. Who would think somebody at my age would be into it? But I love the concept of that. So, you mentioned Jumanji. You mentioned Venom, and you mentioned some others.
Ryan: The other movies? You would know Godzilla.
Donna: Yes, of course.
Ryan: Recently, Warner Bros. came out with ‘Doctor Sleep,’ the sequel to The Shining. That was made here at Blackhall.
Donna: That's a scary thing for me. It's not one I'm going to see. I'm sorry. The Shining? I wouldn't be able to sleep.
Ryan: I stay away from scary movies myself. My imagination is too active and my memories too long. I gotta be really careful what I put in my brain.
Donna: I get it.
Ryan: Clint Eastwood was here for ‘The Mule.’
Donna: Oh, nice.
Ryan: He did all of that on location, so he would use Blackhall as a base, and then they'd go out into the world and do their filming.
Donna: I love that. So, it’s allowed you to learn about the movie industry. And I think the key is, you don't have to be a member of it to do what you're doing: to have Blackhall Studios, and expose yourself to all of this, and expose the Atlanta area to all the opportunities that exist.
Ryan: Well, think about it. Most of the people that are running movie studios? They’re a long way removed from the actual production of product. They live in a world which is the world that I live in -- which is, like, 30,000 feet of ideas and money. And if you're living in the world of ideas and money, then your job is to identify trends and opportunities. Then you hire specialists into those trends and opportunities to go execute a particular plan. And so I can apply those skills in real estate. I can apply those skills in moviemaking. So, we've been working on some production-quality stuff that I think in the future we’ll go much deeper into -- production of movies -- in a totally separate venture. That has nothing to do with real estate itself, but has everything to do with the relationships that are being born from doing business with all the biggest and best movie makers in the world,
Donna: I love that. Can you give us any key? You know, a little bit of a little bit more of that?
Ryan: Yeah, I'll tell you a really fascinating idea and story that has been evolving. One of my buddies from Biola --
Donna: That keeps coming up. See, you can never know about those connections. Relationships.
Ryan: So, when we got out of college, he went on and became one of the most famous Navy Seals of our generation. No kidding. He was a Seal for 14 years.
Donna: Love that.
Ryan: Nine of those years, he was on Seal Team Six, which is the development team -- kind of the ultimate team -- inside of the Seals. You have to be a Seal for five years before you are even eligible to apply to become a Seal Team Six member -- and he was on Seal Team Six. He became a leader on Seal Team Six. He led the raid on Osama bin Laden. He led the raid to save Captain Phillips.
Donna: Wow.
Ryan: Yeah, he's an absolute legend.
Donna: He went to college with you? You went to college together?
Ryan: Yeah. He's from Alaska. He grew up in very rough, very cold environments. Where, you know, you’d send him to San Diego for Seal training and he's like, “this is cold water?”
Donna: Yeah, totally a fish out of water.
Ryan: Anyway, he graduated number one in his class from Seal training. And went on and had this really illustrious career. He retired five years ago, and when he retired, he went out to Los Angeles and got a meeting with Les Moonves, who was running CBS at the time.
Donna: Okay.
Ryan: I think Les took the meeting mostly because he was a famous Seal, right?
Donna: I would.
Ryan: Why wouldn't you? I mean, American hero.
Donna: Exactly.
Ryan: And so, he goes to Les, and he pitches him this idea of the show Seal Team -- that's on CBS now, and it's gone into its third season. He's the executive producer of the show.
Donna: I'm a huge fan, and so is my retired Army officer husband. So, yeah.
Ryan: All of the B-roll -- all the tactical movement -- is done by real Seals. That's part of the magic of the show, right?
Donna: I did not know. Love that.
Ryan: They're taking those guys -- years and years and millions of dollars of training -- and then putting it on the screen as actual, real tactical movement. Part of the genius of the show.
Donna: Yeah, I wondered about that, because teaching actors to do that would be tough, don't you think? I don't know if it's possible.
Ryan: Right. There's a reason why it takes years and years of training to be able to run tactical movement in the way that they do so efficiently and productively.
Donna: Makes sense.
Ryan: I went out to visit him and his team in LA, and I met a number of their writers. Two of the writers are ex-Seals, in order to try to keep everything really authentic -- one of the writers will come up with some plot twist that’s bizarre, and the Seal goes, “That'll never happen. We're not doing that.” So he's really been committed to authenticity. The other thing that I love is that their crew base has slowly filled out with as many veterans as possible.
Donna: Nice.
Ryan: Right? So, they have this show about the military that’s being made by military veterans. How cool is that?
Donna: I do love it.
Ryan: So, we were brainstorming, and we were talking about what might be next for him. He lives in Colorado, but he produces the show in Los Angeles. I said to him, “You know, I've got an idea that I think you should entertain. What would you think about this? What if you moved to Georgia? And what if we started a production company where all we did was make military content?”
Donna: Oh, I'm in, I love that. That's a great idea.
Ryan: It's everything from just the tactical gun movement -- that is, ‘John Wick’ -- to ‘Black Hawk Down,’ which is true military. But then, everything in between. ‘Jason Bourne’ could be in there. ‘Bad Boys 3’ could be in there. If there are guns, and those guns are being used for violence, then we might make that movie.
Donna: I love it.
Ryan: Right? I mean, there's a pretty simple criteria for it: if it's driven by the idea of gun tactics. So what you have then is the opportunity to build an entire production studio similar to Tyler Perry's. Tyler Perry has a very genre-specific production company, and this becomes a very genre-specific production company. But you're doing it in a state that is military-friendly. That is gun-friendly. That is Americana-friendly. So now, suddenly, you're producing a type of content that a lot of Georgians can get really excited about.
Donna: You’re a genius. That's wonderful stuff.
Ryan: Well, that’s what we’re working on right now, which I think is a huge idea.
Donna: It's a built-in audience. And there are people who don't know that they want this, but once they see it, they’ll love it.
Ryan: There are people that love this type of content. They love high action, high octane shoot-em-ups.
Donna: I'm married to one of them.
Ryan: And he runs out of stuff to watch.
Donna: That's it.
Ryan: There’s not enough of this content. If you like this kind of content, you run out of things very quickly.
Donna: Yeah. He's complained about the Military Channel, which he watched for years. And they don't give him what he wants anymore. He's not getting it there. So yeah, I'd love it.
Ryan: So, that's an example of the evolution of this industry.
Donna: Sure.
Ryan: Right. How real estate -- the core real estate -- and the core infrastructure, and the core production, then evolves over time. And all sorts of other things that are separate businesses, totally separate ideas, are all born out of the same ecosystem.
Donna: I love that. And there's almost no limit, is there? I mean, at this point, it's only limited by your imagination -- the things you could come up with -- it sounds like.
Ryan: Well, I'll tell you: what's really fascinating about Georgia and Georgia's place in the entertainment industry right now is that there's only six cities that really matter in production. That’s Los Angeles, New York, Atlanta, London, Toronto and Vancouver.
Donna: Right.
Ryan: Of those six cities, there's only one that really has land to grow.
Donna: Is that Atlanta?
Ryan: Atlanta and Georgia. Right. You think of Georgia. You think of the corridor from Atlanta to Savannah.
Donna: Sure.
Ryan: That corridor could grow huge in entertainment.
Donna: And I'm telling you, this area is hungry for it, from what I understand. I've been interviewing lawmakers down at the Capitol as a Capitol correspondent for a show called Georgia Public Broadcasting's Lawmakers Show. And what we've talked about all week has been economic development. Georgia being the number one state for business. The movie industry, the film industry, is considered the the jewel of the state in this. So, how do you see it in terms of the economic development realm -- the film industry?
Ryan: Well, there's two major pieces. Obviously, the infrastructure has played a huge role to this point -- which is all just land and buildings providing space to make great movies -- combined with the fact that we have a great crew base here in Georgia.
Donna: Exactly.
Ryan: A lot of it is left over from Turner. We have this huge legacy of Turner in the 90’s, so we had all these people that were trained in entertainment and television that were dying for new jobs. And a lot of them, there was a diaspora. Georgians got sent out all over the world who had this training, but there wasn't enough work. Now that we're bringing this work back, we can bring all those Georgians back, which is exciting. And we see that all the time. So there's more infrastructure that can be built over time. Then, the next piece is really the development side: what you see Pinewood doing. Frank Patterson just raised a fund to buy entertainment companies and start producing content themselves, which is very exciting there. You know, I had breakfast with Frank just yesterday. I told him, “Here you guys are. Tip of the spear again, right? You were tip of the spear on all the infrastructure. And you're going to be tip of the spear again on all of the content -- aside from Tyler, who's a self-made genius, right?” I mean, Tyler's a world unto himself. But the difference is that Tyler built everything with his own money. And now other people are paying him to make productions. This is really the first time that Georgians have raised capital to start investing directly into entertainment, which I think is one of the most exciting things about what Frank just did.
Donna: Oh, it's absolutely exciting. Like I said, the interest is there. And the lawmakers, despite the fact we've been hearing about this horrible audit that a lot of people thought was too biased, on one end, against this film industry. This ball is rolling in Georgia, in terms of the film industry growing. And it's not going to stop.
Ryan: I mean, this is like the boulder chase in ‘Indiana Jones.’ This thing is gigantic; it has so much momentum. It's very, very heavy. And I think we would be crazy to try to stop it.
Donna: Yeah. I want to get into some of the things that that you talked about. So, when we mentioned your time at Oxford for a while, I understand that you called that time magic. How do you take that time and look at the way life is right now for you?
Ryan: I mean, my life right now is incredibly magical. I've been going through amazing soul awakenings that I would have never predicted, but I'm very grateful for. That's probably for a totally different conversation.
Donna: Okay. We know you’ve flourished at all kinds of levels as a successful entrepreneur. We know the world of business can be down and dirty: ‘Take no prisoners.’ How do you remain steadfast in believing in ideas that bring you joy? I hear you have, as you say, a ‘from the neck to the kneecaps’ type thing.
Ryan: How did you know that?
Donna: Tell me about that a little bit: what that means, and what others should know about that.
Ryan: Well, I'll tell you a couple of things. One, I believe that the best decisions by human beings are made from the neck down. I believe that our brains should only be turned on to solve problems. They shouldn't be turned on to solve major life decisions.
Donna: So, your heart should be involved. Everything there, all your muscles, everything.
Ryan: I think that the area of our body across our chest informs us about all sorts of things that we’re passionate about, right? I think the area that's our guts informs us about what direction we should go, which way we should trust, who we should trust. Right.
Donna: I'm into gut beliefs -- whatever my gut tells me.
Ryan: Right. And then we've got an area below our guts that can help us choose a mate.
Donna: That's true, yeah. We talked about that a little earlier in this conversation. That's important.
Ryan: It's hugely important. And I think that's more important than a checklist in your brain.
Donna: Sure.
Ryan: So, what I will tell you is that one of the things that I've been going through and really reflecting on is that for a lot of my life, I held it as a virtue to be an amazing friend and a terrible enemy.
Donna: No kidding.
Ryan: Right. Where I wanted to be incredibly good to those I'm close to, and incredibly ruthless to those people that would fight against me.
Donna: And that was something from growing up?
Ryan: I think so. You know, my father was a Special Forces Marine.
Donna: No kidding. That tells me a lot about you.
Ryan: He was a particular kind of personality. He was in Vietnam in ‘68 and ’69.
Donna: I had a dad in Vietnam, too.
Ryan: So, very heavy fighting. And I grew up in a house that had a high comfortability with harsh words.
Donna: Exactly.
Ryan: Right. Things were very candid. On a level that might be unhealthy -- but you don't know. You only know what you grew up with. And so, I grew up in an environment where I was incredibly comfortable with graphic language. Which, I think, where that translates is that I took on a notion of the world as a place for a noble warrior to fight noble causes -- which it is, to some degree.
Donna: Yes, it is.
Ryan: But a lot of enemies are made up in our own minds.
Donna: That's true. That's where you get rid of the head and you focus back on that bottom part of your body.
Ryan: Correct. And so, what I've most recently gone through is, I've realized that I've created a lot of my own suffering in my life based on ego decisions born from blindness. And in the realization of how terrible that kind of suffering is, I realized I don't want to bring any more suffering into the world. If you really taste suffering at the deepest level, then you can pop out on the other side and be in a place where your life shifts, and you start to say, “It doesn't matter what's coming at me. I refuse to bring more suffering.”
Donna: I love that. And so many people can relate to that. But it takes a while. It sounds like you've had a chance to really step back and think about this.
Ryan: Well, you have to. You have to experience something so profoundly painful for yourself, born from your own choices, that you might actually understand what you're doing to yourself. In my example, we were talking earlier about my wonderful ex-girlfriend, who was a reason I came to Atlanta. Well, she left our relationship largely because my ego was so outsized that I had so much ego pain from things that had gone on in our relationship. But that left me in a place where I didn't treat her the way I should have. I lost that relationship because of my own terrible decisions. Now, the realization that that relationship was gone forever took the suffering in my life to such a high degree that my own ego was revealed to me. It was like I could say my ego was drug into the sunlight and turned into ashes like a vampire. And in that moment, new love and light started to flow through me, and I realized there's so many things I need to change that can make my life better.
Donna: So how do you take what you've learned? What have you done to take that and translate it into being the incredible businessman that you are?
Ryan: Well, I just don't take things personally. When people do things that I think are inappropriate or obscene or unfair, then I just recognize that it's not about me. I don't need to take that personally. I just need to be rational and objective and centered in those decisions and avoid contributing more suffering to the suffering that's already sitting on the table.
Donna: It's a lesson that others need to learn -- who want to do what you're doing, to be successful as an entrepreneur, as a businessman.
Ryan: Yes. Sometimes you think that it's all about the fight, right? It's all about the tenacity. And sometimes you need tenacity to overcome things, but sometimes it's just about being able to let it go and stay centered.
Donna: I love the fact that, you know -- you mentioned the ruthlessness -- but we think of people in the corporate world, people and businesspeople in positions like yours, not having the heart. And you're saying the heart is actually going to make you more successful.
Ryan: In my life, I see it right away. My relationships are all being transformed in a really beautiful way. My decision making is more clear. My body's even reaping benefits of the purging. The purging of negativity, the purging of suffering. I'm seeing a positive influence on my physiology.
Donna: Yeah, I think we're all getting to the point where we're hearing more about, “Get rid of that toxic part of your life,” you know?
Ryan: Yeah, but do you really know what that means? Like, we have all this language. But then the only thing sometimes is... I mean, this is the worst part. It would be great if we could just wake up on our own accord, or we really could just say, “You know what? I see that so clearly.” But oftentimes it's only the accumulation of the suffering that's born from all our negative choices that then actually opens our eyes and helps us realize, “Wow. I'm doing this to myself, and I'm doing this to other people.”
Donna: Yeah. And you want that realization early in life. Not too far into it.
Ryan: Yeah. God, we'd all be so much better off.
Donna: Before we close up: you've got Blackhall, and you're such an astute businessman and all, and we've talked about the fact that you're focused on real estate, but have you become a film buff yourself? It sounds like it's changed you a little bit.
Ryan: I've always loved movies. I've never had an inclination to be a movie maker. But I love the business of film. And as I learn more and more about the business of film and business, of television, it fascinates me. One of the things that I think is so fascinating is, imagine that we're the board of Disney and we decide to make the movie Jungle Cruise -- which was made here at Black Hall and comes out this summer.
Donna: Love it.
Ryan: The Rock. Emily Blunt. I mean, amazing cast.
Donna: It's going to be great.
Ryan: It's going to be a great movie. But imagine we decide to make a $250 million movie. So we call up our favorite producer and we say, “Hey, we want you to make Jungle Cruise for us. Here's $250 million. Come back in a year with a movie.” So he takes our $250 million. It comes out. There's all sorts of magical things. He walks back to us at the end of the year, and all he has for us is a data disc. Just, “There you go.” $250 million. All you have left is a digital file -- a $250 million digital file.
Donna: That's amazing.
Ryan: That’s your asset. Disney's assets can all be put onto a hard drive. All their assets that matter -- all that intellectual property -- can just sit on one hard drive, and that's worth billions and billions of dollars.
Donna: And that's fascinating.
Ryan: Well, it's unlimited. Real estate is a limited asset, right? I can't just manifest more real estate. There's only so much I can build on a piece of real estate before I have to go buy more real estate. There's an unlimited amount of entertainment that I can create.
Donna: And I see you doing it, and I see the Atlanta and Georgia area benefiting so much from it. It's been fascinating to talk with you, Ryan Millsap, CEO of Blackhall Studios. Thank you so much for talking with us.
Ryan: My pleasure. Thank you for being here.
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