Ryan Millsap, Chairman & CEO of Atlanta-based Blackhall Studios, is one of today’s top entertainment executives! With a vision for Blackhall that’s ambitious, energizing and boundless, Millsap is blazing a trail through the heart of the South – and setting his sights on the future of entertainment. Listen and learn as Ryan Millsap journeys through the myriad industries, people and landscapes that traverse the complex and dynamic world of film production.
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Ryan: I'm Ryan Millsap, host of the Blackhall Studios Podcast from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm an entrepreneur mostly by necessity, because I have massive authority issues, and also by constitution – as the entrepreneurial life is filled with things I love: freedom, adventure, creativity and imagination. When I began this leg of my journey into the entertainment industry, you may find it interesting to know that my background before this was all commercial real estate.
And then I built Blackhall Studios as a specialty real estate project for production giants like Disney, Sony, Warner Bros, and Universal to have a place to ply their skilled craft of production. I'm from Los Angeles, but I moved to Atlanta six years ago. I've done business all over the world, and I know few places with the dynamism of Atlanta. It's a world-class city with a huge economic future as a center of commerce for a global economy. On this podcast, we get local and global and talk to people who are inspirational, sensational, sometimes motivational, but at all times somehow tied to the ecosystem that is the culture and business of entertainment as it relates to Blackhall Studios.
Today on the podcast, I have a real maverick from the international sports management arena: Dr. Harvey Schiller. From his time as a fighter pilot, to chairman of the Southeastern Conference, to executive director of the United States Olympic Committee -- where Schiller found himself highlighted in ESPN's amazing documentary ‘The Last Dance’ by the Olympic Dream team leader, Michael Jordan.
Schiller came to Atlanta for the 1996 games, only to meet his next boss: Ted Turner, who made him president of Turner Sports. With an invitation from his good friend, baseball legend George Steinbrenner, Schiller then became CEO of YankeeNets, the first company of its kind managing marketing, broadcasting, and new revenue streams for the New York Yankees, the New Jersey Devils, and the New York Nets (now known as the Brooklyn Nets under the ownership of music mogul Jay-Z).
I've had a great conversation with Dr. Harvey Schiller. He’s shared some brilliant stories, and I hope I can host him again.
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Ryan: Hi, this is Ryan Millsap. Welcome to the Blackhall Podcast. Today we are really fortunate to have an illustrious guy on our podcast: Dr. Harvey Schiller. Dr. Schiller, how are you today?
Harvey: Good. Good morning.
Ryan: Good morning to you. The Blackhall Podcast has a little bit of an intro that precedes this, that will tell about some of your background -- so everybody listening knows quite a bit about the fundamental aspects of your background. One of the things that struck me as I looked at your life path and all the things that you've accomplished is the amount of intensity it must take to have lived the life that you've lived. Do you relate to that -- the idea of intensity?
Harvey: Well, I'm not sure I'd use the word ‘intensity.’ I think perhaps it's a combination of focus and energy and whatever intellect you're able to bring along. If you look really carefully at most of the positions I've had, they have been things that have needed restructuring, or something that needed some kind of fixing, and creating something new going forward. So I’d add creativity to that as well.
Ryan: When you look back, what is it in life -- I mean, how much of it is nature, and how much of it is nurture -- that creates a person with the amount of focus and energy that you have?
Harvey: We all are examples of our environment. I think my early days of growing up in New York City -- really, a street kid with a lower-income family. My dad was a truck driver. My mother worked almost every day in retail sales. So I was left a lot to my own. And most of that time, unfortunately, was spent doing things that you don't want to talk about today. You know, when you're in that kind of environment, you join up with the kind of people that you think you want to be part of. So, I think those experiences kept telling me, ‘This is not where you want to be. You want to be in a better place. And what are you going to do to get over that? Education.”
I always felt that there was something bigger to aspire to, even as I was doing some things that I wouldn't want my children to do. And all of that led to a decision to go to the Citadel: the military college in Charleston. For a kid from New York, it really was a very different kind of environment, as you might expect. But the discipline, combined with the education that I had, really was a light bulb to me. I think that combination helped me prepared for whatever other challenges there may be in life.
Ryan: What was it before? I mean, before you went to the Citadel? I mean, that's obviously a bold move for a young man from New York. What gave you the vision to get there, and then while you were there, what kind of visions did you start to have about the future?
Harvey: That's a good question. Going back, being involved in a team sport -- playing football in high school -- really changed a lot of my outlook. I began to see people that were doing things differently, and the camaraderie and the intensity of that, as it were -- to use your word, ‘intensity’ -- helped me to focus.
I had a good friend that wanted to be a pilot in the Air Force. I started listening to him, and the kind of things that he was aspiring to as well. That seemed to me to be something that would take me out of the environment that I was in, and change. So the steps of the Citadel gave me the Air Force Commission, which led to pilot training and a career in the Air Force.
Ryan: And so, inside of the Air Force, where along the line did you start to realize one of your special gifts in life was focus and energy? And then, how did that translate, post-Air Force, into all the amazing things that you went on to accomplish?
Harvey: A good friend during my early days in the Air Force said to me: “Listen, you can do a lot of different things. Think about this: to fly an airplane, you don't have to know how to change the tires. That's a job that other people can do. Your job is to fly the airplane safely.” So, I've used that as a mantra. And, going forward, there were a whole range of things that I was able to do. But those were new vistas to take on, and new challenges to take on. I said earlier that, usually, it was a bunch of fixing -- taking a look at things in a different kind of way, and bringing team members along with you, because obviously, you can't do any of that by yourself. You have to have good people that are focused as well with the intensity that you expect.
Ryan: Now, you’ve had to deal with a lot of strong personalities over the years. I mean, I think about even the way that you've been in the news recently with the Michael Jordan documentary. Where did you develop the kind of moxie, and the kind of ‘above the fray’ vision, that allows you to deal with these strong personalities with strong opinions, yet be able to hold your line as to what you know you need to get done?
Harvey: Well, sometimes it's a bit of humor. I remember reading about President Kennedy's father. He said, “When you go into a meeting, and there are people who you think are stronger than you in that meeting, just think of them sitting there in long red pajamas -- and it takes away that aura of who they are.”
I think the New York part probably gave me a little bit of that moxie, a little bit of humor, and a bit of understanding and friendship. Whether it's George Steinbrenner, or Ted Turner, or a Senior General in the Air Force, or Michael Jordan -- by the way, him calling me a dick? A former student of mine said, “Well, that's just ‘Director In Charge.’ That's all that means.”
Ryan: Haha! Yeah, I love that. And you know what? If Michael even puts his gaze upon you, you're doing something right.
Harvey: You know, I know him. Since that time -- his agent’s a good friend of mine, David Falk -- we’ve talked about doing some businesses together, way back. Look, it's the environment he’s in. The interesting part to me about all of that is that, of the 12 or so people on the Dream Team, some of them were sponsored by Reebok. So, he's the only one who covered Reebok with the flag. None of the others did. And from that time, he lost his friendship with Charles Barkley and others. So, look, as I said -- I am sure every one of those team members has kept that Reebok Award Medal uniform somewhere in their home because it means something special.
Ryan: You know, I, I think of a conflict like that, and it makes me reflect on some of the things I've learned about people, and their time horizons, and their focus. I watched that documentary, and one of the things I was struck by is that Michael Jordan -- despite the fact that in the minds of Americans, and the soul of America, he's eternal; right at this point, he's such an icon for America -- he personally felt like he lived in a very short time horizon, in the past and the future, and was so just incredibly present. And yet, when it comes to long distance vision, that definitely didn't feel like his strength. But that's not what you need as an athlete. What have you experienced, seeing different types of personalities and the different time horizons different personalities have? How do those fit together in your mind to create the best kind of team?
Harvey: Well, that’s a good point about Jordan and being in the moment. He brought me along once to speak at one of those camps for older people in Las Vegas. I'm not sure; there was more focus on gambling than there was on basketball. But anyway, one of the campers asked a question about one of the famous shots he took -- which seemed to be completely mindless as he went up to put the ball in the in the basket. “What were you thinking about when you made that particular leap to the basket?” He said, “I wasn't thinking about a darn thing, because my body was responding to all the training and everything else that I've done. And I called upon it to perform at that particular point.” But he said, “That was the moment that I prepared for.”
I think that preparing for whatever that challenge is -- because we live in a disruptive society, where things are changing so quickly. I mean, we're facing a virus now. But we face a lot of other things, technologically and otherwise. How can we take advantage of it instead of thinking about it as the enemy? Focus is a big part of that, and Jordan is a good example. Tom Brady is. We tend to use athletes, but there are businesspeople and others. And certainly, when you're in combat, you're taking all the things that are around you for that moment to perform, especially when you're in an emergency situation. How you deal with your friends and your family and your business associates, and the work that you do in putting something special together.
I think all of that comes from preparation. And, dealing with some of the people that we just mentioned -- everyone carries some of their own demons with them. I've learned, “Don't attack them. That's not the place to be. George may have had a lot of things about him that you didn't like, but try to think of the things you liked about him.” What I liked most about him was his ability to be a friend. And I used that friendship, and he used it with me, in terms of building a really strong relationship with Ted Turner. It was his ability to think out of the box, and be creative, and start a global network, and new channels and World Championship Wrestling and buy a team, and win the World Series, and marry a movie star.
Whatever else it was, it was his ability to take on new vistas. Looking at that with him, it was something that I wanted to be part of, because he was able to say to the world, “I'm going to take the Atlanta Braves. And you know what? I'm going to make sure that every American has a chance to watch them.”
A different way to look at it: when 9/11 hit, he was really out of the leadership of Turner and the CNN world, but his apartment was in CNN Center on the top floor. So, when the airplanes hit the Pentagon and the World Trade Towers, he ran down to the CNN broadcast center in the building. And he said to the various directors there, “Why aren't we showing this on every single channel that we have? This is a moment of our world that has never happened before and hopefully will never happen again. Put it on everything -- not just CNN, but TNT and TBS and CNN Espanol, and CNN International; every outlet we have.” Now, why didn't the other people in that room think that? Why did it take Ted Turner to walk in there? Because he had this global vision of what really makes a difference in the world.
Ryan: I love this idea that you're exploring about how we focus on the strength of the people in front of us, rather than the weaknesses, in order to get the best -- not only from them, but maybe out of ourselves. You were talking about George; I assume we're talking about George Steinbrenner there.
Harvey: Yeah.
Ryan: And then, obviously, Ted Turner. These are great American stories; these men. When you look back -- I mean, you're obviously a scholar. You have two PhDs. When you look back, and put your academic mind to work on what it means to be a successful American, what would you say to a young man? Let's say a young man from the Citadel graduates, and he comes to you. He's 24 years old, and he says, “What does it mean to be a successful American?”
Harvey: Well, I’d step back a bit. I would hope that they would've taken some scientific courses when they were students. Across America, I hope that would be the case, because we're living in a really scientific world, and understanding how things operate and what the backgrounds may be -- and be analytical when you see something. If you're a young graduate, and you're in a meeting room, and somebody puts up a chart or a display with certain points, you want to be able to analyze that and look at it and say, “What is it really telling me?” Not just a bunch of points on a chart. So, I think having somewhat of an analytical mind and looking at things that way helps you along the way.
What I'd also tell -- which I do tell every young person that I meet -- is “Volunteer.” Join some things where you can give your time, which are not your vocation, but are your avocation. Things you believe in. Maybe it's music, or drama, or working at a hospital, or coaching a kid's team. Because in that environment, you're going to use different skills that you've never used before. They're going to be different from what you do for your work every day, whether you're in the military or not. Business, selling real estate -- whatever it may be. Volunteer, because people will see you that are part of that volunteer team. They’ll see some of the skill sets that you have that you haven't even thought about yourself.
I got involved in heading up the U.S. Olympic Committee because I volunteered to run a boxing event in Los Angeles. And people around that said, “Have you ever thought about running the entire Olympic Committee?” When I got involved as commissioner of the Southeastern Conference, how did that happen? Well, I was a volunteer in the NCAA. That led to the president of Auburn University saying to me, “Have you ever thought about being the commissioner of the Southeastern Conference?” I said, “No, I'm an active-duty Air Force officer. I'm a professor at the Air Force Academy.” He said, “Why don't you come interview?” If I can, can I tell a quick story about that?
Ryan: Yeah. I'd love that.
Harvey: So, I walked into the central bank building, and really, they didn't want a person out of the military to be the commissioner of the Southeastern Conference. They had focused on someone who was an athletic director at the time. When I walked into the room, there were the ten members: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Vanderbilt, et cetera. And they couldn't get me out of that room fast enough. They didn't want someone with the military in mind. The president of the conference was Gerald Turner, who is now the president of SMU. The last question he asked was, “I don't think we want somebody with a military mind. How would you work with our fans in the southeastern part of the United States?”
I said, “Well, let me say something.” I stood up, and I said, “Well, this conference has been known for cheating its entire existence. It might not be so bad if you took an individual from an institution where you didn't lie, cheat or steal, but you certainly wouldn't tolerate it.” And I walked out. I called my wife and said, “Don't worry; we're not moving from Colorado to Birmingham. This just happened.” But when I landed back in Colorado Springs, they came and wanted to offer me the job.
So, I think you have to be who you are, and hopefully you're in an environment where other people can see. I mean, think about all of the people that will listen to this, and yourself. Some of the things you're doing are because of what people have seen in you -- so you’ve got to expose yourself to that. Again, I would recommend that people volunteer. And continue your education. No matter what it is. Pick up certain things; learn things. Take a course in something different. Learn something that you haven't learned before.
Ryan: You said something that was interesting to me, which is ‘military mind.’ For somebody that doesn't know, or doesn't have the context for military life or training, what do you mean by the ‘military mind?’
Harvey: Well, I think it's a misnomer. It's a carryover from movies and television, where you see a senior officer or a drill sergeant -- a Marine Corps drill instructor -- chewing somebody out, and telling them, “I'm ordering you to do this.” But that doesn't work. Great leaders inspire and lead. They don't direct. Eisenhower said, “If you lead a man by fear, and you take away the fear, the man is gone.”
So, it's just a misconception of what's going on. You’ve certainly trained to fly a fighter in combat, and you've prepared for that -- just like your airline pilot has for landing in bad weather, and understands the stress, and can overcome it. There's no such thing, really, as a ‘military mind.’ It's a complete misunderstanding of what people think about the military. I think we're learning more about that as we see an all-volunteer Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps.
Ryan: My father is an ex-Special Forces Recon Marine. He was in Vietnam, ‘68, ‘69. And that had a huge impact on his life: psychologically, spiritually, emotionally. When you look back at that time -- because you were in serious combat time in Vietnam -- what are the ways you think that impacted you for the rest of your life?
Harvey: Well, like your dad, I was there. I was there a little earlier. I was there for a year, from ‘66 to ’67, in the early post-Gulf of Tonkin episode. I think the last thing -- I call it a gift -- was your ability to demonstrate who you were under fire. Sure, your dad had that same experience, which is a statement of courage. And it’s very, very unusual in today's world -- in a human being's life -- that they're exposed to that particular test. I mean, only a small number of people who are in combat, or a small number of people who are in law enforcement, or what's going on now in hospital rooms and so forth.
Well, people are able to demonstrate their courage under really, really trying situations, and come out of it successfully. I see that as a gift, personally. And maybe that's what led to telling Michael Jordan and the Dream Team, “You don’t wear the Reebok uniform, you’re not getting a gold medal.”
Ryan: That's right. And my dad talks about, really, two major lessons. I mean, obviously, the lessons are probably countless. But two major things that he experienced that stayed with him psychologically were: number one, he takes no moment for granted. Right? Obviously, when you see that kind of death and destruction, you know that everything in life can change in an instant. And you stop taking things for granted. You stop believing that tomorrow is exactly what today will be. And you appreciate the beauty of today. I think you also learn how to fight through the struggle of today, knowing that tomorrow can be completely different.
I think that's one of the things that he shared with me. The other thing is exactly what you were talking about -- maybe you said it slightly differently, but it’s the same spirit. He said, “When you go through things like that, you learn your own capabilities, and you learn that you have the mettle, you have the wherewithal, you have the strength, you have the courage -- you have all of these things within you that you didn't realize until you were tested. And then when you come out the other side, you know you have them.”
He said that, for him, he walks out into the world every day knowing that he is capable of handling basically anything. And it sounds to me like that's kind of a spirit that you walked away with, too. Only the spirit of “I can handle anything” allows you to walk into a situation where a bunch of superstars are, on some level, being prima donnas, and telling them that's just not the way it's going to work. Do you relate to that?
Harvey: Yeah. I relate to it in a different kind of way. I mean, I don't think being a pilot, in spite of all the stress in the thought of being shot down, is the same as your dad’s experience on the ground. I think there were certain things you just mentioned which were a little different than what I did.
Certainly, the statement of courage -- but taking for granted the situation -- I didn't live in the same kind of situation that he and his fellow Marines and others lived in. But I did have an experience. When I first got involved in the Olympic movement, I got involved in the sport of boxing. In the early 1980s, a USA boxing team was on its way to have a set of bouts in Poland, and the airplane crashed on landing in Warsaw. The entire team was killed. I was contacted to go over with some other people to try to identify the bodies from this horrific airplane crash. There were 20-something people involved. I went to Warsaw with a couple of other people; there were also some people from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology to help with identification.
When I got there -- this is 40 years ago -- I went to this morgue in Warsaw, Poland, which had different issues they were facing in terms of energy. So, imagine a morgue where there's no refrigeration. Think about that. You're walking in, and on these tables are people that you've known from your other experiences-- from the age of 18 to some of them in their 40s and 50s -- really, in pieces. When I looked at them, and helped with the identification through a variety of ways, that's when I said, “Life is for living, and don't take anything for granted.”
So, I had a different experience than your dad, but in a similar way, it was that carnage that he saw on the ground in Vietnam that I saw in an airplane crash when I was in my late 30s. That gave me that lesson.
Ryan: Well, those kind of graphic lessons are sobering and centering, I suppose.
Harvey: I don't want to be over descriptive, but you're right.
Ryan: How does that impact you spiritually? Do you have a spiritual sense of life?
Harvey: I do. I am not a religious person, but I try to think about, as I said earlier, the goodness of people. I think religion does good things, and religion does bad things. But in general, if you followed the way it’s supposed to lead, we wouldn't have conflict in the Middle East, and we wouldn't have conflict in other places.
I think that having a social order is important for societies to succeed. One-on-one, people running around, killing each other, raping, and doing all the bad things. So, I'm not sure I'd use the word ‘spirit.’ I'm not sure what that all means. But I think I’d use the word ‘goodness.’ And I try to feel that way about everything.
Ryan: Yeah. ‘Goodness’ makes me think of virtue. What are the virtues that you think of if you think of manliness? I mean, apart from ‘humanness,’ specifically manliness. What are the virtues that a man should want to acquire?
Harvey: Oh, gee. I think it probably depends upon the environment and the person. I mean, if you're in an environment where all you have to do is hunt for food, your virtues are somewhat different than someone who’s living in New York City and selling real estate. So, I think, two of the things that are really important in my life are honesty and integrity.
When I left the Air Force, people in business were saying, “You're living in a different world, because the people you've been around have had a rite of passage; what they have instilled in them is this bit of honesty and integrity. You're not going to find that in every business deal that you go into.” Yet I try to do that. I try to accept that if someone shook my hand, and someone gave me their word, I didn't have to write it down on a piece of paper. We know we live in a litigious society, and that piece of paper becomes more and more important. But I've always felt that, “Okay -- I'll live on your word, and I expect you to be honest.”
There's a saying. “Be honest, because that's when you’ll remember what you said.” And there's another one that says, “Be honest, but don't blabber the truth.” So, I try to think around those things. Be direct, and get to the particular. I've been in a lot of business situations where they've been back and forth and back and forth over days and hours. Sometimes I've been brought into the discussion, and I might use some profanity -- say to the individual on the other side, “Are you going to do this or not? Just let me know.” And it seems to work every time.
I've done this on occasion, which might seem a little strange. I've been in rooms where it's going back and back and forth, and I'll say, “Excuse me for a second -- let's both get up.” And then the person on the other side of the table will get up. “Actually, come on and sit over here.” And I go over to their side and say, “I'm going to try to argue your argument from your side. You try to see it from my side by sitting in my chair.”
Ryan: I love this.
Harvey: You know, that works every time.
Ryan: Yeah, well, you're an incredibly practical philosopher. I love the notion that the idea is only as good as the practical use. Is that what I'm hearing from you? It feels like a very practical approach to the philosophical.
Harvey: Yeah. My mother used to say to me growing up, “Always be prideful of what you do.” And then she'd say, “You're standing there naked. Are you still proud?” I was 11, 12, 13 years old. What the hell did I understand about that? But I do now. And I think about being proud of what you do...
I used to tell my kids that, no matter what you want to do in life, you're starting with an empty bag that you're always carrying with you. You decide what you want to put in that bag. If you want to be a Secret Service agent, you’d better make sure everything in that bag is clean, without crime -- or that you haven't done anything that's going to work against you taking that kind of position and job.
I have things in that bag that I'm not proud of, and I think about them a lot. And if I were to face those situations of personal relationships -- with your wife and your children and your friends -- I would have done things a little bit differently with maturity and age. But at the time, it was who I was, and it went in the bag. So, I've been able to carry that with me and tolerate it and think about it and change with it.
There was a special on ‘60 Minutes’ some years ago. You might have seen it -- where they talk to a group of people who remember everything. You took a date: September 26th, 1992. They'll tell you what they wore, who they were with, what they said, what the weather was. It didn't matter. Every single thing in their life, they remembered. And the interviewer said, “That must be a terrible thing -- to have to remember everything.” Do you know what the respondents said? “I just keep doing good things, so I'll remember good things.”
Ryan: That's amazing. That's an amazingly profound wonderfulness of non-compartmentalization. So often, it feels like people act like today doesn't matter tomorrow; it just gets boxed and put on a shelf, and tomorrow is a totally new day. At some level, there's amazing health in that. Like we were talking about with athletes, right? There's something amazingly healthy about wiping the slate clean and just movi ng on to the next moment.
But then there's the profound human beauty of continuity, and the things that we are proud of. The stories that we are most proud of. When you think back, what are a few things that you consider to be the things you're most proud of?
Harvey: As far as for family? I’m proud of the relationship I've had with my wife for over 50 years, with its pluses and minuses in all that time. For 25 of the years -- for part of those years -- we didn't talk to each other. But we lasted 50 years, or more. The development of our children, who are good citizens, and healthy, and smart, and giving back to society -- and still do -- and well-educated. And other family members.
I think that starts with, I'm proud of my service to my country -- defending freedom. I always think of myself doing that in everything that I do, even as a retired officer. But I'd go back in a second, even at my age, to serve wherever I was asked to serve. I feel guilty about not being in Iraq or Afghanistan or helping people in floods or fires, or doing what guardsmen do, and others. I would do that in a second. I’d jump in front of a car to save a kid; for their life. I try to make smart decisions about things and contribute. But I think those two things: family, defending America, maybe contributing some things in science when I was doing research, is probably some leave-behind.
I would add the nurturing and mentoring of people in my life. I'm very, very proud of people that have been successful and moved on. I was at the Football Hall of Fame dinner in New York last year, and the keynote speaker was Charles Davis. Who's Charles Davis? Well, Charles is moving from Fox Football to CBS Football. He's one of their color commentators. And he said, “Great career. But how did... What happened?”
When I was commissioner of the Southeastern Conference -- by the way, put it in perspective. I'm sitting at a table in an audience where somebody who was the keynote speaker and the MC with somebody who worked for me when they were 20 something years old. So, I'm looking up on the stage and I'm thinking, “Okay, how did I meet Charles Davis?” I gave a speech at the University of Tennessee, and Doug Dickey, the athletic director, said, “Charles, why don't you take the commissioner back to the airport?” So we spent 30 to 45 minutes in the car, where he drove me to the airport, and I fell in love with the guy. I said, “Hey, look, come work for me in the Southeastern Conference.”
He said, “Are you sure?” He had been working. He was a graduate assistant in football, working on his master's degree. So, I got back to the office. I said, “Gee whiz, I offered this guy a job. I don't have any money for him.” So I went to Ted Turner and I said, “We do not have enough African-Americans in athletic jobs around, with the ten schools that we have. I need I need $150,000.” He said, “What do you need the money for?” I said, “I need $10,000 to give to each of our ten schools, to hire a minority person as an intern. And I need $50,000 to hire this guy, Charles Davis, to be an assistant in my office.” And he said, “Okay.”
So, we bought Charles in. And he and I traveled around the Southeast together -- we traveled with our Director of Enforcement and Compliance and others -- and he did an unbelievable job. Eventually, he wanted to get back to coaching. And he went to -- I think it was Pacific or Kansas State. They were playing one of our Southeastern Conference schools, and they weren't doing very well. He was a defensive coordinator. And he said, “Commissioner, I need to leave.” I said, “Well, I'm leaving for the Olympic Committee. Why don't you come with me?”
He then left coaching, and he became the director of our training center in Colorado Springs. Then he moved on, and eventually, he is who he is today. When we took him around -- I'll give you a small example. We have an athletic... is this taking too much time? Tell me.
Ryan: No. God, this is fantastic.
Harvey: So. Charles: again, African American. We had a meeting of athletic directors in Jackson, Mississippi, and I was at the Jackson Country Club. He was sitting at the dais with me. He gives me a little shoulder shrug, and, sitting next to me, he says, “Commissioner, look at my steak.” He had a steak that was almost as big as his table. It was bigger than the plate. And there were two African American waiters -- one on either side of him -- giving him everything he wanted, because Charles was the first African American to eat inside dinner at the Jackson Country Club.
Ryan: Right there -- that meal? That was the first meal?
Harvey: That was the first time that a black man had eaten there at that particular time. And this was 1988. So, 32 years ago. Yeah. A lot of changes since. He traveled around the country and did different things to help bring other minorities in. And some of those initial interns became athletic directors at institutions around America, including Georgia and other places.
So, I would add: the last part is mentoring and creating opportunities for young people. There's a young lady who worked for me as an intern at the Olympic Committee, Jenny Storms. You know where she is now? She does all the marketing for NBC Television.
Ryan: Incredible.
Harvey: And I have to go to her to get something done. She doesn't have to come to me anymore.
Ryan: So, that's when you're really doing your job right.
Harvey: Yeah, right. When you look up, and there's a guy that was an intern -- he was the dinner host for a thousand people.
Ryan: Right. Giving the keynote. You remember hearing his voice for the first time in a car on the way to the airport, thinking, “This is a good, quality human being. I want to not only help him, but this is the kind of person I'd want on my team.”
Harvey: Absolutely. And there were a bunch of people like that, who had done significant things like that, who I was lucky enough to meet early on in my career.
Ryan: So, I have three daughters -- ages 15, 13 and 10. Give me some parenting advice. You've been through it. What should I know?
Harvey: Well, for your daughters, at that age, I'd wait till they were 16 or 17 to talk to.
Ryan: Haha! So good.
Harvey: Because, at the age they're at, you're not going to influence anything. So, seriously, all you can do is understand the challenges that they're facing among school and friends. Girls, especially, live in a world of rejection by other girls, or by boys, or whoever they believe in. And you’ve got to help them through that. It's not about them. It's about the other people. And your children can't control the actions of other people. They have to be who they are. They’ve got to keep working at it. Maybe they say to someone who is mean, “I know you didn't mean to say that.”
There was a great commercial a year or two ago about cell phones. There was a young daughter and a mother who were screaming at each other; yelling. But they're not saying bad things. The daughter is saying something like, “You're telling me I can have a phone?” And the mother screams out, “Yes, you can have this phone.” And they're going back and forth, and they're thinking, “Yeah, good.” They're still raising their voices, but they're doing good things for each other.
Ryan: Right. So, stay patient. That's what I hear you advising me with my daughters -- to give them some time, because these are going to be the years that require more silence than participation from me.
Harvey: It may take a long time. My daughter attended Smith College in Massachusetts. She did her junior year in Switzerland and traveled around a lot, and she visited some of the beachheads at Omaha, and others where our forces invaded France, and so forth. She sat down on that beachhead in France and wrote me a letter, where she understood everything that I've been talking about in terms of in defending America and putting your life to save others. That's a once in a lifetime thing you have with your child. But some of that was when we were at a training base in Virginia. Each day, when they lowered the flag, we'd go outside and listen to the bugler playing while they lowered the flag. I never said anything about that. But somehow that had an inspirational part of who she is today.
Ryan: Well, Dr. Schiller, we're running out of time. But you know, the last thing I'd love to hear from you is, as you imagine the kind of trajectory that America is on today, what are the things you hope for, for the next generation of Americans?
Harvey: Well, you want your children and their children to have opportunity, and you hope that the environment is safe. Sustainability, and those kind of things, can go forward -- so that the same resources that we've had growing up will be available to them. We hope that science will solve some of the challenges -- not just what we have now, but the next one as well, whether it's the COVID-19 virus or other things. People have to put their faith and their energy in that thing, and everybody has to be optimistic. As I said earlier, they have to be honest about things. You hope the national leadership and local leadership has the ability to instill those values in people. I'm not sure they do right now. But hopefully we'll work through it.
I think my grandchildren are smart enough to understand, when a public figure speaks, what they're really saying and what they're not saying. Children today -- your kids -- are being exposed to things that none of us have seen, at least in my lifetime, in terms of leadership. And maybe it's the way we remember it. I was born when Franklin Delano Roosevelt was the President of the United States, and I was maybe five when he died. I remembered my mother was an immigrant, and we were in a small apartment kitchen, and she was ironing. And on the radio, it came that Franklin Roosevelt died in Warm Springs, Georgia, today. And my mother put the iron down. I'll never forget this. She lifted up her apron and started crying. That's the reverence we've had for national leaders -- people who were an immigrant society, who had the opportunity and the safety of America. And I hope we all recognize that going forward.
Ryan: Beautiful. Doctor, where can people find you if they want to hunt you down for one reason or another? Do you have social media, websites -- anything like that?
Harvey: Yeah. I'm on Facebook. I'm on Twitter. I don't do much on Twitter. Everybody knows my email: schillerh@aol.com.
Ryan: Old school.
Harvey: Yeah. Old school. I have others; I probably have ten others. But that's the easiest one to remember. Alright. That's the best way.
Ryan: Dr. Schiller, it's been a real pleasure. I appreciate you taking the time to join us here on the Blackhall Podcast.
Harvey: Thank you for the opportunity. And I appreciate all you're doing in doing this podcast. Thank you.
Ryan: My pleasure -- and have a great day.
Harvey: You too.
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Ryan: I'll leave you guys with thoughts that I write on Instagram. Sometimes people are far more broken than you ever realized. Sometimes only good information flow reveals the truth. Truth can be very sad, but the truth will set us free.
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Thanks for listening to the Blackhall Studios Podcast with Ryan Millsap. We want to hear from you! Find us on SoundCloud, iTunes or Spotify, and follow us on Instagram at @Ryan.Millsap.
