Ryan Millsap, Chairman & CEO of Atlanta-based Blackhall Studios, is one of today’s top entertainment executives! With a vision for Blackhall that’s ambitious, energizing and boundless, Millsap is blazing a trail through the heart of the South – and setting his sights on the future of entertainment. Listen and learn as Ryan Millsap journeys through the myriad industries, people and landscapes that traverse the complex and dynamic world of film production.
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Ryan: I'm Ryan Millsap, host of the Blackhall Studios Podcast from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm an entrepreneur mostly by necessity, because I have massive authority issues, and also by constitution – as the entrepreneurial life is filled with things I love: freedom, adventure, creativity and imagination. When I began this leg of my journey into the entertainment industry, you may find it interesting to know that my background before this was all commercial real estate.
And then I built Blackhall Studios as a specialty real estate project for production giants like Disney, Sony, Warner Brothers, and Universal to have a place to ply their skilled craft of production. I'm from Los Angeles, but I moved to Atlanta six years ago. I've done business all over the world, and I know few places with the dynamism of Atlanta. It's a world-class city with a huge economic future as a center of commerce for a global economy. On this podcast, we get local and global and talk to people who are inspirational, sensational, sometimes motivational, but at all times somehow tied to the ecosystem that is the culture and business of entertainment as it relates to Blackhall Studios.
I stay pretty busy, even during this quarantining -- with plans to open another studio in London, another studio in LA, and to expand our studio here in Atlanta. But my guest today on the Blackhall Studios Podcast is taking it to another level. Color me impressed. I'm talking today with Dr. Darria Long Gillespie: a Yale- and Harvard-trained Emergency Physician; the bestselling author of ‘Mom Hacks;’ a regular guest expert on CNN, HLN, and Fox; as well as a frequent TEDx speaker -- and, most importantly, a mom.
Maybe I’d better talk fast. She may not have much time. Seriously; I'm thrilled to have her on the cast today. Her approach is to take the best science, add knowledge, and make life healthier, better, and easier. I'm all in on the concept. Her catchphrase is “Ready? Because you’ve got this.” I know I've got a fascinating interview coming up with an amazing and accomplished medical professional on the Blackhall Studios Podcast.
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Ryan: Welcome to the Blackhall Podcast. Today we are very fortunate to have Dr. Darria Long Gillespie. Many of you know her as just ‘Dr. Darria.’ Doctor, how are you? Welcome.
Darria: Good morning. Ryan. How are you?
Ryan: I'm fantastic. Where are you quarantining?
Darria: I am quarantining in our fair city of Atlanta, which I understand is also where you are.
Ryan: I am. I'm actually just outside of Atlanta, in a little town called Social Circle, at my farm.
Darria: Well, Social Circle -- I've heard that before. It just sounds so lovely and, like, ‘1950s-perfect.’ Is it?
Ryan: In many ways it is. Now, it’s ‘1950s-empty-perfect.’ I mean, it's a tiny little ‘nothing’ town. But there are beautiful farms out here; wonderful people. It's everything that you would hope to find in the country.
Darria: Oh, that sounds wonderful.
Ryan: What part of Atlanta are you in?
Darria: We just moved in December, because there's nothing fun like having an extra move in there. And we're in Sandy Springs -- so, fortunately, we have some good tree space around us, which makes all the difference right now, I think.
Ryan: I love Sandy Springs. It's a gorgeous part of town. Sandy Springs became a city, I think -- what, ten, 15 years ago? They were part of Atlanta, and then became their own city.
Darria: Yes. You know what, Ryan? I can't keep track. I think whoever drew the city boundaries of Atlanta was probably five. If you look at the boundaries, I can’t keep track of any of them. But I think you’re right.
Ryan: It was drunk crayon work.
Darria: I wasn't going to say that. I hesitated. I just said a five-year-old. I'm sure they had their reasons. I don't get involved in those things.
Ryan: Well, I love it. Anyway, Sandy Springs; a beautiful area. Let me dive in with some questions that I have for you, which are going to be along a few lines. I want to ask you some questions about your background, and what shaped you as a person. I want to ask you some philosophical questions -- I always find it to be interesting to talk to, maybe, non-philosophers about their philosophies of life. And then I want to ask you some really practical things about what's going on in the world, and the ways people can be intelligent and wise about how to approach a pandemic.
Darria: I love it. Let’s do it.
Ryan: So, let me start with the question that I have, which is, what shapes someone like yourself to become a healer? And what does it mean to you to be a healer?
Darria: That's a wonderful question. So, for essentially as long as I can remember, I wanted to be in medicine. I think it was a realization that, when something was wrong with somebody, when they were sick, when there was an accident -- I remember my father having a skiing accident when I was young -- I realized that I ran towards that. I thought that was something that everyone did.
It was only when I got a little bit older that I realized, no, that was something unique. I ran towards those scenarios because I wanted to help and because I felt that I could. And so, I wanted to best prepare myself to be able to really help in those situations, which is what drove me to go to medical school in the first place.
Ryan: Well, how does that tie into a spiritual imagination? How does healing, and being that kind of a person -- that kind of a person that really feels other people's pain, and wants to help -- do you relate to that question at all? Does being a physician feel like a spiritual practice?
Darria: I think it is, Ryan. I think, of course, a key component of my being a physician is giving somebody the medical care they need. But I think there is that spiritual need, and human connection need, on two levels. One is, just as important as giving somebody an antibiotic or their blood pressure medication is being able to sit with them, and letting them know that I'm here. A couple of weeks ago, with the quarantine, people couldn't get visitors, and one man couldn't reach his family. So my job, just as much as getting him his antibiotics, was calling his wife, finding a way to get him his cell phone, finding a way to connect him back so he didn't feel alone. That's part of my job.
So, yes. Absolutely. And secondly, you have to connect with people because everybody has different goals of care. I need to know what is a successful care scenario. And a successful treatment to somebody may be different from one person to the next. I can't treat somebody according to exactly how I think I would want to be treated. You have to understand what your patients want, so that you can give them the best treatment for them. So, yes -- I may not have thought of it in those words that you just asked, but you're exactly right.
Ryan: Well, it sounds like you feel like there's a lot of psychology involved in the practice of... now, you practice emergency room medicine -- but any kind of medicine, right? There's this psychological element of empathy and understanding.
Darria: Yes. And there is a unique way you have to be in medicine. You see suffering, and you have to be able to feel it to a certain way -- but you can't internalize it so much that the suffering of one patient just derails you; that you can't go turn and take care of the next patient.
The way I find that really helps is just to be really present with each patient. To be there to understand what they need; to connect with them; to be able to react and interact with what they need. And then you have to be able to compartmentalize that and move on to the next. In terms of psychology as well -- especially in the ER. An ER doctor does this; a CEO like yourself, Ryan -- you have to do this as well. Everybody has to do this. A parent has to do it; a kindergarten teacher. It’s separating the chaos of the world around you: keeping that very separate from how you are functioning internally. Because if you internalize that chaos, you can't function on a mental level. You can't function on a productivity level.
Ryan: Now, did you play any sports? I mean, this has a point, but did you play any sports growing up?
Darria: I'm mainly a runner. I ran track and field, and I rode horses, I did the Junior Jumpers and did a lot of jumping. So, jumping and running, effectively.
Ryan: Okay. Tell me if you relate to this, because clearly, just from talking to you briefly and then looking at your educational background, you have a very far-reaching mind. A very curious mind, clearly. Sometimes it's hard for people with far-reaching, curious minds to get centered into the present moment. And oftentimes, it's only sports that can really bring that to the fore for somebody who has a far-reaching mind when they're young. Right? I know that I experienced something like that, for sure. Did you find that you had to do exercises -- spiritual practices, spiritual exercises -- whether it's the Buddhist kind of ‘present moment’ practice, or different things, to try to center yourself down into that present moment that you're talking about? Or does that come naturally to you?
Darria: That does not come naturally to me, Ryan. I remember very much studying for my medical boards -- how hard it was for me just to be able to, again, focus down to what you're talking about. So, exercise played a key point. I would take a break every two hours and go do some pilates -- in an effort to try to be able to focus back. Because, yeah -- that's part of it.
I think in today's world, for me now, it's my run. My team knows, my family knows -- if I don't go for my run, I may be distracted, and not a very happy person. So, that is my centering. And moments of meditation, when you have time. For me, I think I only need 5 or 10 minutes here or there. A positive psychologist told me the other day about ‘micro meditation:’ just focusing on one breath at a time. I think that makes a difference. No matter how busy you are, being able to kind of drop back down and center yourself. So, yeah -- I think that's important. What sport did you play, Ryan?
Ryan: Listen, I played anything with a ball. I always just loved team sports and ball sports -- and the more physical contact, the better. I think in many ways, for me, that was a deeply centering physical-space groundedness that I naturally lacked because I lived in the ether as a child. Sports really saved me from just elevating into sort of some sort of detached state, and helped me put my feet on the ground in a really beautiful, deep way. It actually makes me think: one of my uncles is a doctor. He's a small-town doctor in Nebraska. And one of the things I remember him talking about when I was a child was, he talked about how medicine -- because he kind of lived in the ether; a brainiac kind of guy -- medicine was like a calling for him that really was centering and grounding, in that you can't get lost in philosophy when you're just trying to save somebody's life.
Darria: Being somebody who's easily distracted, I'm like that. Like that dog that's like, “Oh, squirrel!” I realized that in emergency medicine, when there is a crisis, and I have that patient in front of me who is acutely ill, it is one of those few times that you are in flow. I'm not thinking about my to-do list. I'm not thinking about anything else that needs to be done, but this person, a human being right in front of me. There are very few situations where I can be in that flow. I am, in a crisis in emergency medicine -- and that's why I chose the career I did.
Ryan: Right. That elevated state that forced you into present moment awareness.
Darria: Yes, exactly.
Ryan: That makes perfect sense. So, this morning, I read in the news -- and you probably read this, too -- that the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled that the governor had no right to tell people to shelter in place.
Darria: Yes, I saw that. It's been all over the place.
Ryan: Talk to me about the ramifications -- what you see going on in the world; how people should be approaching this. Let's imagine a world where the government just said, “Listen, do whatever you want.” And then everybody called Dr. Darria, and they said, “Dr. Darria, I can do whatever I want. What should I do?” What do you tell them?
Darria: Well, I would first tell them to send me payments of Swedish Fish. Ryan, if we're talking hypothetical, let's go there. Here's the problem, Ryan. Somehow, we have managed to take -- and everybody on both sides is guilty of this -- we have managed to take a virus and make it politicized. And I think everyone is doing this. Or, not everyone -- groups on both sides are doing this. I think therein lies much of the problem. I think decisions need to be made less on kneejerk and emotion, and more on “What does the data say, and what is our strategic plan?”
The good thing is, the US -- we're not the only ones to experience COVID right now. China has it; Italy, Spain, Sweden... hold on, I apologize. That was my daughter speaking over the intercom. These are the joys of homeschool. And the home we’ve bought has a full home intercom. I mean, who has those anymore? Okay, let me just start off where I was.
Ryan: It's perfect for sheltering in place. You can just hang out, watch Netflix, get on the intercom. Old-school.
Darria: And not even move. I know. It’s a big intercom, too. I don't know how to use half the stuff on there -- but my six-year-old apparently has figured it out. So, yay for our children figuring out technology.
Ryan: It’s like the butler system. She just presses the button and says, “Mom, I need breakfast in 15 minutes.”
Darria: Ryan, do you have kids?
Ryan: I have three daughters: 15, 13 and 10.
Darria: Three daughters. Man, young sir -- you are in trouble.
Ryan: It's called karma.
Darria: Amen to that. I have a six year old and a three year old. And yes, let's be clear. My main job to them is ‘butler.’ Second is probably ‘chaperone,’ and ‘babysitter.’ The other day, my six-year-old had a stomachache. So I was just examining her with my stethoscope. We were having some fun with it. And my three-year-old looks at me and says, “Mommy, why did you steal a stethoscope from a doctor?”
Ryan: Haha! I love it.
Darria: You just cannot impress your kids. Stop trying. But you asked me about COVID. So, the reality right now is, we need to be data-driven, and we need to be strategic. Just like you with your company: you create a plan. And we can look at other models. We can look to China; we can look to Italy; we can look to Sweden.
Darria: And as a country, we should make a decision. We can say, “Hey, you know what? We want to be like Sweden, and we want to open up more. We want to relax restrictions.” So we create a plan around that. And that plan includes firewalling the vulnerable, letting everyone else -- you know, with intelligence -- go back on their way to those things that are lowest-risk, and accepting, as a country, the consequences that come with that. There will potentially be more illness, and there will be more deaths. The problem is, as a country, we are choosing this bizarre, a-la-carte hodgepodge lack of strategic plan. We’re winging it. And that is where the problems arise. That is why there are unintended consequences.
Ryan: Well, Doctor, I guess that's kind of the point of my question here. The Wisconsin Supreme Court has basically said, “America is this chaos. Go.”
Darria: Yeah, exactly. “Go about your way.” But why? What is the intelligence in that -- in saying, “We're going to ignore all the other models; everybody else who has learned something.” Instead of learning something from others’ mistakes -- which we could be doing -- we're just going to wing it and reinvent the wheel. That's what we are doing. And it makes no sense to me.
Ryan: Well, listen: I don't disagree with the approach to a pandemic. What I'm grappling with today, with this Wisconsin decision, is -- what does it culturally mean to be an American? This pandemic is thrusting that into our face in a way that I've never experienced. I have a deep love of liberty and freedom. I love all of that spirit that is America. It invigorates me in ways that other countries just don't. And I think that's true for millions and millions of people. I think billions of people around the world see that and long for that freedom. And yet, being in the middle of something like a pandemic, it's really easy to see how the chaos that is America might not be built for the kind of cohesion that you need to fight a germ war.
Darria: I think that’s almost looking at it the wrong way, though, Ryan -- because in America, I agree with you. I'm a from a family of small-business owners; of immigrants. America is built on people who work hard, who have freedoms. And we work towards that. But think of the parallel of being an adult. By being an adult, I have the right to drive my car wherever I want, or eat whatever I want, or live wherever I want.
But part of being an adult means that sometimes there are responsibilities, and sometimes there are restrictions. To be able to have the liberty to drive my car wherever I want, I still need to obey the speed limit. Or, if there is construction, I have to slow my car down to 35mph to go through the construction. That doesn't mean somebody is taking away my liberty to drive.
I think that when we look at it and say that this virus -- which doesn't care what color you vote -- it has come. Nobody asked for it. We didn't invite it here, and we now have to react like adults and say, “Okay, to maintain the bigger picture of my liberties and my freedom and this country, for which we all have fought so hard and live in and enjoy, we have to responsibly say, “I'm going to take some restrictions for the bigger picture.” I'm not going to go barreling through construction at 80mph.
Ryan: I love this, actually. I love the driving analogy, because obviously, when cars were first invented, there were no speed limits. We didn't realize we needed them. And then, as people started having accidents, and things didn't go the way that we'd hoped by just allowing chaos to reign, we reined in the chaos with laws. So, it sounds to me like we're going to have to enter into a period where people are going to have to very rigorously debate: what are the laws surrounding pandemics, and how do we all acquiesce to those for the greater good?
Is that fair? Because, I mean, right now we don't have any of those, so we're seeing the chaos of people saying, “Wait, there are no laws about this. You can't tell me what to do.”
Darria: I think you're right. This is a totally new world. We didn't have laws around this. But again, when we’re giving up some of our rights -- for smart reasons -- and sharing that, I think being very transparent, and being consistent, is what is useful. Similarly -- again, using the car analogy -- when you and I were kids, our parents would stick us in buckets on the roof of the car. Now our children have five-point harnesses until the time they're 16 years old, practically. We're not worrying about taking away my child's rights to ride on the roof of the car, because we all see this is smart, and we see why. We see the data, and we see the consistency of that data.
That's, I think, what's missing, and where people get frustrated -- because I have so many people reaching out to me, Ryan, on my Instagram, and in different places where I answer questions. They say, “Should I wear a mask? One person says I should wear a mask. This person says I shouldn't wear a mask. I go to the grocery store, and people aren't wearing a mask. What should I do?” And it's in that inconsistency that people get confused. They get impatient. You need to tell them a consistent message. You need to give them timelines and say, “You know what? I know this is true for the next 30 days, and in 25 days for now, you and I -- or we as a country -- are going to reevaluate as we learn more.”
If you have that, I think we have a smart country. I have faith in our population. And I think people would be more willing to do that if they felt that they were being spoken to as adults in a transparent and honest way.
Ryan: Well, that's not happening, right? Clearly, that's not happened. I would love that. I mean, from the beginning, I thought this could actually be what I dubbed out of the gate ‘The Great Pause.’ Like, this amazing 90 days where everything was going to just get put on pause. And then in 90 days, we just press play, and we go back to normal. And that has not been the case at all, because I think there's been some major failures in approach -- economically, from the top down. It sounds like, in your mind, there's been a lot of failures from the top down, from just a pure leadership perspective in the midst of a pandemic -- which I think is evidence. It’s actually almost irrefutable.
But, so, here we are. We’re here in this world. We’ll start with Wisconsin. Wisconsin has said, “No, there's no top-down. People do what they want.” So, how do we start to educate them? What do you tell these people? I give you a 30-minute radio broadcast in the state of Wisconsin to try to educate the populace who now has every freedom they want. And you have to tell them “This is what you should do, Wisconsin.” Help educate. Tell me what I should do. What should I be doing if I don't have somebody to put restrictions on me?
Darria: I think that's a great question. And I think you start by saying, “Let's make sure we know where the goalposts are.” So, it looks like, Wisconsin, you guys are going to take the Sweden model. I think it helps; let’s point to models that help people anchor. You're taking the Sweden model. So here's what we're going to do.
Step one: those vulnerable people -- let's keep them firewalled. That's where Sweden kind of failed. They didn't do that so well. Step two: yes, this means that many of you will go out and you may get COVID. Many of you will be asymptomatic. Many of you will be sicker. Here's the symptoms you need to look for. And, step three: here are the things you need to do to minimize your chance of catching it, and to minimize the risk of spread. So, that third one -- that is wearing masks. And yes, that means when we talk about restaurants. Six feet alone isn't enough. So, we need to educate people on that. How do you dine safely? How do you go to the store safely? Let's do that. You want your freedom to go back and do things? Okay. Step three means you have to be smart and do them in a way that is safe.
On that point of restaurants, Ryan, there were some pretty interesting things. You’d hear people saying, “Six feet.” There was one study that I just saw, and I can't remember what country it was from. They showed people at six different tables, and actually, the virus spread further than six feet. But it directly followed the airflow right to left, because the AC was on the right and the outflow was on the left. Everyone downstream from the person who was sick were more likely to be infected.
So, let's look at that. Let's use that data. We're not starting from ground zero now. Let's look at that data and say, “How do we need to structure our restaurants and our retail and everything else so that we can be smarter? How do we structure our healthcare system to make sure that if everybody's going out, and we get more people sick, our hospitals can handle it?” If we do that, then yes, we can have more of a Sweden model -- but we all need to know the goalpost. We all need to first acknowledge that.
Ryan: Okay. So, I'm going out to a business dinner tonight in open Georgia. Imagine you came with me -- like, as a Navy Seal operative for dealing with the COVID virus at restaurants.
Darria: I like your attaché. I like this.
Ryan: Right? And I say, “All right, we're walking in. What should we look for? And how do we combat this problem?”
Darria: Yeah. So, for one, let's figure out the air vents. This is like the CIA. I’d have us stand upwind from everyone. Which, you know, to an eighth grader, upwind is a good idea for many reasons. I have a three-year-old boy -- that's where his mind goes.
Ryan: Haha! I'm a 45-year-old boy, and that's where my mind goes.
Darria: Some things never change. So, how do we do that? I'd have you wear a mask. And I’d look for people who are wearing masks. Because, honestly, somebody wearing a mask tells me that they're probably doing other potential safe things. Number three: you need to make sure that wearing a mask doesn't mean you drop your guard on the other things and go crowd with the largest crowd. I'd have you avoid that large circle of 20-30 people that are standing there chatting, and more do smaller groups. I'd also -- and this is interesting -- have you avoid large amounts of time with any one person, because we know that when you get sick from COVID, one of the things is the inoculation dose. If one person coughs one virus piece on you, you're not going to get sick. It needs to be... we don't know exactly, but maybe around a thousand particles, according to some studies. So, you can get that by one person who's super-thickly sneezing a whole bunch of particles in your face. That's one way to do it. Or one person who's just talking to you -- after about five minutes of talking to you, they can potentially pass that.
So, it's how sick they are, how close you are, and the duration of time. Those are all things: density, duration and distance, and the dose. Are they just speaking to you? Are you just breathing in the same room? Or did they truly sneeze? Those are all things that we can look at. And if you give people that information, then I think people can start making their own smart judgments about it as well.
That pass-by interaction in the grocery store for a second? Not a long enough duration. Living in a home with somebody who is sick? Yeah, plenty of duration. You're going to have more chances of getting sick. So, distance, dose, duration, density.
Ryan: Well, as we are speaking, I'm emailing the restaurant asking for their air conditioning flow plan.
Darria: If I start getting blueprints in my email inbox from you, Ryan, we're going to have to stop.
Ryan: Actually, it might be needed. You know, that might be one of the things that they have to post at the restaurant. You know, here's our airflow. If you're in this section, it's more dangerous.
Darria: It’s going to show up on OpenTable. It's gonna be like the nosebleed sections -- the downwinds. You can get a discount sitting at those tables.
Ryan: It's the truth. It's like living on a river, where you get all the runoff. You want the good quality water at the at the source of the spring?
Darria: Yes, you do. So, there will now be an even more premium table.
Ryan: A premium-premium. Yes. So, right now, at our studio, one of the things that we're working through that just ties right into this, that's so complicated -- or, at least, it feels complicated to the novice who doesn't know anything about how you fight germs; really, on a truly scientific level -- is that we are trying to figure out how to start productions again. Disney wants to start. Sony wants to start. Warner Brothers; Legendary. All these guys. There's a massive backlog of needed content because the entire world is at home watching Netflix. So, that pipeline is being drained, and not refilled. And the demand is now bigger than it's ever been in the history of entertainment.
We're all trying to figure out, “How do we fill that pipeline?” And the only way we can fill that pipeline -- because we don't have technology to manufacture content without human beings present together at this point; and I don't know if we ever will, because it's such a human art, this making of entertainment. And so, we're trying to figure out, “How do you get 300 people back together for months at a time in order to make movies and television and create, basically, sterilized, safe, COVID-inoculated worlds?” What are some of the things that come to mind for you?
I'll give you a little bit of context: our facility is about 150 acres. We use about 100 acres. We have 850,000ft² under roof. The soundstages themselves, where the content is actually filmed -- the smallest ones are 20,000ft² with about 50ft clear height. All one big, open-area box. And the largest ones are 40,000ft². On each of those stages, there's four entrances. So, you know, I don't know about the ingress, egress, etc.
Now, our whole campus is also sealed. We have very tight security in and out of the facility. So we do have controlled access there, which is, I think, a big plus. But what are some of the things that come to mind for you that I could be thinking about relative to how I get people back to work in a safe way?
Darria: Yeah. So I'm gonna answer my question for that based on my experience working in the hospitals, and also doing my work at CNN -- seeing the control room, and knowing where you have those groups of people of high concentration. I do also have to say, for everybody sitting at home bored right now, lacking content: my TED talk did launch yesterday on TED.com. So, anybody who is bored, we are happy to offer them that TED talk. Just have to say that.
Ryan: I'm watching that today. That’s happening.
Darria: Excellent. I love it. You'll have to let me know.
Ryan: What's the topic?
Darria: It is “How to End the Crazy Busy and Triage Your Life like an ER Doctor.” How to take those lessons of handling chaos in the ER -- where I can look at those double doors and say, “Whatever comes through those double doors, I can handle it” -- and how I'm using those lessons to train everybody to be able to do the exact same thing in their lives.
That’s the TED talk. I gave it in November outside Chicago and TED.com liked it and decided to relaunch it on TED.com yesterday on their home page. And so, that's been really exciting. We've gotten a lot of great traction.
Ryan: Well, it’s timely, so it makes sense. There's a lot of people trying to figure out how to deal with the chaos of this.
Darria: Yeah; people are more stressed than ever right now. They need this. They need this message. So, again, for your question, how do we combine the lessons from working in a hospital to working in a television studio? For one -- any of your employees who can be remote? You keep them remote. Number two: those who aren’t in front of the camera, but are behind? They continue to wear masks. And then, looking at that -- there were some interesting studies.
One looked at a choir. They were in a room, and they practiced in a fairly large room. I forget the exact square footage. I'll get it for you, Ryan. But it was a choir practice room. One person was sick -- and, actually, a significant portion of that choir -- from singing. Because, if you and I are breathing, it would take me about an hour to infect you with COVID -- 50 minutes. If we're talking, it takes about five minutes. If you're singing -- something where you're really projecting -- you can be passing the virus that much faster.
So, you need to look at what people are doing, and in how large of a room, and then the ventilation. That study of that choir was really telling that, with a large group, small room, and poor ventilation, more people get sick. You have to look at all the shared spaces. Again, studies of offices show that. One shared a big office, with an elevator bank in between. There was a sick person on the left side of the office. Most of the people who got sick were on that person's side of the office -- again, due to proximity and ventilation. Most people on the right side -- on the opposite side of the elevator bank -- only 2 or 3 of them got sick. Maybe they passed the person in the elevator.
What are your shared spaces? Is there catering and craft? That is a place where people should not be gathering anymore, because that just ups your risk. And again -- who are the people who are vulnerable? Be watching for them especially. And think about it: who are the runners? Who's the person running, carrying that script from the director to the actor, to anybody else? Those people -- you need to be especially careful, because they could be super-spreaders. So, be watching people by role as well.
And then, I think there is a lot to be said for testing fairly regularly. Hopefully, we will get more tests, so you can do that -- you can be testing for active infection. And also knowing who may already have been exposed, because they are potentially going to be some of your lower-risk people. Since they've been exposed, they may have some immunity to it.
Ryan: I love this. This is educating me about all sorts of things. So, we're running out of time. But I wanted to ask you a little bit about the testing -- because I just ordered some tests from Korea. It's an experiment, because we're trying to figure out exactly that. How do we test; what do we test; et cetera.
Tell me about it. What do you think about the antibody tests? How do we use those? What do you think about the full-blown, regular testing? I've been working with a lab that believes they can continue to turn around tests for me in 24 hours. That's obviously a lot more expensive than the antibody tests, but the reality is, right now, I'm trying to figure out how we even use these, and what we can trust and what we can't trust. Talk to me in more detail about the testing options and processes.
Darria: It's kind of three different options now. The newer one is called the antigen test; it's supposed to take about 15 minutes. That looks for specific proteins on the virus. It has, I think, around a 30-to-50% false negative rate. That means that somebody could test negative and actually have the virus. But if they test positive for it, it's pretty reliable -- about a 90% chance that they have the virus.
The advantage of it is that you can get it done in 15 minutes. And again, if somebody is symptomatic or is high risk, I always tell people, “Assume you have COVID if you have the symptoms of it -- even if your test tells you you’re negative, because we have a high false negative.” Then there is the PCR test, which is for acute infection -- it’s going to look at the DNA of the virus. That's what you're talking about, probably: the 24-hour, or the 3- to 5-day turnaround -- that is more accurate. It could be a 20-to-30% false negative, but that's maybe a more accurate, longer turnaround.
Then there's the third one -- which is the antibody test. This one’s a little bit of the Wild West. The FDA wanted to get more testing in. So they reduced regulations. And we flooded the market with all sorts of antibody tests that we had no idea of the accuracy of. The FDA is trying to catch up now. Earlier this week, they said all the antibody companies had ten days to get back to them with their data on accuracy, and if they didn't, they were going to lose approval for them. It's not even approval; it's emergency-use allowance for the market.
So, I've been telling most people with antibody tests, “Let's wait for the dust to settle a little bit, because there is all this hubbub. And then, once we know which ones really have the ‘go’ from the FDA, get those antibody tests.” Those will be very useful, because that implies somebody has had COVID and that their immune system has fought it off -- which means that they may have some immunity to it. That's going to help us know who can come back sooner, because they are less likely to catch COVID; because they've already fought it off once. We don't know all the details about immunity, but that antibody test, I think, is really key for knowing who is the lowest-risk to be able to come back. And then, you couple that with the antigen test, or the PCR test, to know who is sick now -- because we’ve got to get those people off the street to go home and convalesce. Does that help?
Ryan: Sure. Man, it'd be so nice if the testing could solve a lot of this from a triage standpoint; that's for sure. Now, last question for you; then we have to wrap up. Imagine that your kids were mid-20s right now, in the middle of COVID, and they lived in another city. They called you up, and they said, “Mom, I'm stressed. This is freaking me out.” What are two things that you would tell them that might de-stress them?
Darria: It's a great question. Let me fast-forward. One is, “Honey, Mom is hopping in the car. I'm coming to get you.” But I guess that's not allowed, right?
Ryan: Haha! “The chicken soup is on the oven.”
Darria: “I’m pick you up kicking and screaming. I'm on my way.”
Ryan: I love it.
Darria: But, aside from that, first it's asking them. It's what you talked about earlier: that spiritual connection. And if you remember, I said every patient is different as to what constitutes care for them, or what constitutes treatment. I'd ask my child, “What are you most scared of?” There are a lot of things they could be scared of. They may be scared that they're not going to have a job. They may be scared for their friends’ health. They may be scared for their own health. They may be scared because they haven't seen their friends, and they're feeling depressed, and they're mentally not feeling safe. So, I would first ask them that. Once you know that, then you can help address it.
Again, what are they concerned about? You validate it. You learn more about it -- and you let them feel that. At that moment, either you can see, or ask them what solutions they see. Sometimes they're not immediately able to see the solutions. They just need to hear somebody hear their concerns, validate them, and then mentally start to think, “What's the one next thing we can do to help you here?”
Ryan: That sounded like marriage therapy.
Darria: Maybe I should have a side gig.
Ryan: I think so. I mean, clearly you have a gift outside of just the physical body. You understand how to deal with the spiritual body. But, Doctor, how do people find you online if they want to hunt you down?
Darria: Well, they don't need to hunt me down, Ryan. We try to make it easy. One of the things you asked -- you said people are not getting transparent answers, right now. That is what I'm trying to provide. That is why I'm doing what I'm doing: trying to give people true, data driven, transparent answers -- that acknowledge that we don't have all the answers, and that I will keep coming and presenting to you the information as we have it.
So, on Instagram, @DrDarria is one of the key places that I'm doing that right now. People can ask questions or post comments, and I’ll try to address them in a number of ways. I also post my CNN segments and my BBC segments; all of those things go on Instagram there. Of course, I'm on Twitter and Facebook and LinkedIn -- all @DrDarria. And we just relaunched my website; it's also DrDarria.com. All of these are ‘DrDarria.’
We’re really creating what we call a lifestyle guide, with a scientific soul. So, what is the information on nutrition, stress, exercise -- other health information? That kind of premium aspirational, good holistic health information you want to have -- but everything is data-driven, with that scientific backbone. That's also at DrDarria.com; we just launched. And you can catch my TED talk there as well. It's right on my homepage -- or go to ted.com/DrDarria.
Ryan: Doctor, this has been enlightening and enjoyable. I really appreciate you joining us on the Blackhall Podcast.
Darria: Thank you so much, Ryan. I loved it. Great day.
Ryan: Love to have you back sometime. Talk to you soon. Have a great day.
Darria: Take care. Bye-bye.
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Ryan: I'll leave you guys with thoughts that I write on Instagram. ‘Setting aside pandemics and economic collapse, right now I'm living the exact lifestyle I've been longing for my entire life. I think I'm in love with sheltering in place; social distancing. On the other side of this madness, I now have clear lifestyle goals.’
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Thanks for listening to the Blackhall Studios Podcast with Ryan Millsap. We want to hear from you! Find us on SoundCloud, iTunes or Spotify, and follow us on Instagram at @Ryan.Millsap.
